For hardcore, I would have to say the original Cyberpunk using the Friday Night Firefight rules set. Later versions of Cyberpunk are okay as well. The 'Hardwired' sourcebook is nice for a grittier game and makes cyberware more invasive and less all encompassing. The sourcebook is based on Walter Jon Williams' book of same name.Shadowrun is my favorite setting. All editions are fun. But that is a blend of magic and cyber that may not appeal to your taste. It took about four years of Cyberpunk before I would even consider browsing thru the Shadowrun rulebook in my Gaming Store.There probably have been other dark future books out there, but I cannot think of any that would be easy to locate.

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Living Steel was rare and hard to find when the publisher was at the top of his game. They also did Aliens roleplaying game in the 90's. That was a definite dark future ran by big corporations and 'hard science'.Rifts, though quite fun in many ways, would not fit your hard science desire.

How do you feel about supernatural influence? Seems to me there were lots of 'bad things' are happening as the world gets darker type of games.Good LuckGreg. I will always endorse Cyberpunk 2020 and its supplements as my favorite system for the genre. The rules don't get in the way of the game, and when such luminaries as Gibson and Williams sign on as endorsing it enough to let their IP find its way into the game, there's definitely something going for it.If I -had- to pick a second choice, I'd honestly go with the HERO system. It's flexible and adaptable, and you can literally do -anything- with it.Never been a fan of the Shadowrun system myself, but that's more because I dislike success-based systems overall. I really don't like the way the system handles skills and combat, but again, that's personal (And based in very, very bad experiences across the first three editions of the game).

Jemstone wrote:I will always endorse Cyberpunk 2020 and its supplements as my favorite system for the genre. The rules don't get in the way of the game, and when such luminaries as Gibson and Williams sign on as endorsing it enough to let their IP find its way into the game, there's definitely something going for it.If I -had- to pick a second choice, I'd honestly go with the HERO system. It's flexible and adaptable, and you can literally do -anything- with it.Never been a fan of the Shadowrun system myself, but that's more because I dislike success-based systems overall. Jemstone wrote:I will always endorse Cyberpunk 2020 and its supplements as my favorite system for the genre. The rules don't get in the way of the game, and when such luminaries as Gibson and Williams sign on as endorsing it enough to let their IP find its way into the game, there's definitely something going for it.If I -had- to pick a second choice, I'd honestly go with the HERO system. It's flexible and adaptable, and you can literally do -anything- with it.Never been a fan of the Shadowrun system myself, but that's more because I dislike success-based systems overall.

Yeah, Cyberpunk 2020 is the way to go. The rules-set promotes the grittiness of the setting nicely, and anyone can die from a bullet to the head, no matter how cybered-up they are, so it avoids the 'thinly disguised superhero comic' issue which many contenders in the genre suffer from. Also, it's a setting where 'style over substance' has real meaning.Personally I felt the 2030 version lacked the soul of 2020 - the tech was too 'magical' no matter the pseudo-science tacked onto it, and the neo-80's urban grit just wasn't there. Even the equipment books for 2020 (the 'Chromebooks') were presented in an corporate advertising style which was really evocative of the setting. Seriously, players would buy gear for their characters based on how cool the advert was, rather than the stats. It's a pretty good cure for the 'optimiser blues' you can get from hanging around d20 rules forums too much.;)Oh, and the slang is like real slang - easy to pick up and natural to use.

Run on the edge choomba! @stroVal wrote: @Jemtone thanks for the in-depth analysis its exactly what I needed.Its as I suspected (I don't know why I was thinking this in an Italian accent while I was typing btw;p)I will probably buy 2nd edition Cyberpunk booksQuite welcome. It's not something I set about talking about all the time, but having had a lot of experience playing, working, and writing for the game, I know a lot of its strengths and weaknesses. Like I said in my 'full disclosure department,' I'm probably biased, but I do believe in the right tool for the right job. @stroVal wrote: I hadn't heard of Cybergeneration before.Is it a supplement or sort of like an expanded rules core book?It's a supplement that became its own expanded rules core book. You can read more about it over here:lot of people have problems with it, because they tend to see it as 'Superpowered Post-Human Teenagers Beating Up Bad Guys' as opposed to 'Frightened, Disenfranchised Mutant Teenagers Running From The Entire World' - the former is not very Cyberpunk. The latter, however, is Cyberpunk in spades.I disagree with Stefan Hill's assessment of 2013 over 2020 in terms of feeling more 'Game-y' - 2020 simplifies and streamlines a lot of the crunchier bits and pieces of 2013 (hits per location in 2013 is removed in 2020, for instance - replaced with a flat 'If you take more than 8 points to any extremity after armor and Body Type, that location is pulped' rule).

2013 has a -lot- more rules discrepancies and falls down in many places, but both 2013 and 2020 suffer from some of the same exploits in combat. Rules in 2013 for different damages based on range for each caliber of bullet are gone, replaced in 2020 with a flat damage-per-type.

Beyond that, the games are almost functionally identical.Having played both extensively, I think the differences between the two editions are mostly cosmetic. I freely admit that I loved the artwork in 2013 a lot more than the art in the first printing of 2020, though. Johnny Silverhand's girlfriend Alt. Quandary wrote:Is anybody familiar with using D6 for such a game?The only explicitly cyberpunk implementation I found was somebody´s homebrew system focused on ´Appleseed´ with mech-armor/droids (it felt a bit half-finished unfortunately), but the system itself is straight forward enough that I think you could just use D6 Modern and invent some gear as needed.?I actually played in a someone's half finished game that was kind of a mix of Appleseed and uh oh forgot the name.classic girls in mecha armor doing police work.oh well, it was lots of fun.

Unfortunately, the creator had self esteem issues and never really believed we liked it.Greg. Quandary wrote:Is anybody familiar with using D6 for such a game?The only explicitly cyberpunk implementation I found was somebody´s homebrew system focused on ´Appleseed´ with mech-armor/droids (it felt a bit half-finished unfortunately), but the system itself is straight forward enough that I think you could just use D6 Modern and invent some gear as needed.?I actually played in a someone's half finished game that was kind of a mix of Appleseed and uh oh forgot the name.classic girls in mecha armor doing police work.oh well, it was lots of fun.

Unfortunately, the creator had self esteem issues and never really believed we liked it.GregBubblegum crash/bubblegum crisis, set in the AD police universe. Jemstone wrote:I freely admit that I loved the artwork in 2013 a lot more than the art in the first printing of 2020, though. Johnny Silverhand's girlfriend Alt. Rrrowr.All hail Gaia!;)Also, to make that more than a geekgasm about cybergen, how would you structure a Cybergen adventure/campaign? What kind of thing do you have cybergen characters do for an adventure? I love Cybergen, have done since it came out, and I get the running for your life from the corperate overlords shtick, but I have never really been that sure how to implement it in game.

Advice would be most welcome, because it would rock my world to be able to run a good game of Cybergen. @jemstoneInteresting.I'll keep Cybergeneration in mind for a different campaign.(about 2013)Depends if it was broken crunchy or just too much for certain players.I don't like the dumb-ing down trend of DND(about artwork and layout)So your favorite 2020 rulebook edition is the 2nd?(regarding 2013,2020)You've intrigued me to get both rulebooks actually:3@Zombieneighbours:So hardwired differs because its based on the book,(but its with 2013 rules)Wait is that book with a Luis Royo cover?(or Dave Dorman)?Have you played in the Interface Zero universe? Is it that good that its worth to get as fluff even though we aren't playing in Savage Worlds?

@stroVal wrote:@jemstoneInteresting.I'll keep Cybergeneration in mind for a different campaign.(about 2013)Depends if it was broken crunchy or just too much for certain players.I don't like the dumb-ing down trend of DND(about artwork and layout)So your favorite 2020 rulebook edition is the 2nd?(regarding 2013,2020)You've intrigued me to get both rulebooks actually:3@Zombieneighbours:So hardwired differs because its based on the book,(but its with 2013 rules)Wait is that book with a Luis Royo cover?(or Dave Dorman)?Have you played in the Interface Zero universe? Is it that good that its worth to get as fluff even though we aren't playing in Savage Worlds?It is a cyberpunk setting based on the book hardwired by Walter Jon Williams. The basic premise is class war between the super rich soviat orbitals and the dirt poor western capitalists.

I'm not that keen, it isn't anywhere near as good as neuromancer, it doesn't deal as well or as presciently with the issues of transhumanism, emergent AI, or the dehumanising quality of super wealth. But it is a classic cyberpunk setting.Interface Zero is damned worth for its setting material alone. It is the based one many trends modern technology and economics and represents the most interesting and complete global look at our cyberpunk future in gaming. Where Cyberpunk of eighties and nineties seemed to have a very U.S. Focused view, Interface Zero has a much more global view. It deals with issues like the rise of theocracy in the US, the Rise of the BRIC to being the worlds economic power players, the socio-political impact of china's one child policy, eco-terrorism.It feels more like the bridge trilogy or the Halting State series(from what i have heard about it, haven't read them yet), but with a tech level more like Shirow-punk than earlier material.

The tech level can be very high, is very high, and a little anima. It is a little bit blendery, but is very cool all the same.Atomic array have two very good reviews, with detail the setting.

Zombieneighbours wrote:Jem, have you got any ideas for setting books or other stuff that might fit well with a game set in a world inspired more by gibson's Bridge trilogy.While I love the sprawl trilogy, I want to try something I haven't seen done before in CP gaming.Honestly, since I live in the SFBA, the Bridge Trilogy amuses me because it'd never happen (the bridge in question doesn't have enough protection from the elements to enable people to live on it in the winter, just because of the wind alone. Not even counting the rain, or the absolutely stifling heat in the summer). BUT, that doesn't stop me from doing it in my Cyberpunk games, because it's a cool idea. Plus, with the weather shifts from climate change, and the fact that it always rains in the Cyberpunk Future, it becomes more livable.I don't really have any setting books or sourcebooks.

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I just say 'this is so,' and make it internally consistent with the rest of the game, and it works. You can get away with a lot if you maintain internal consistency.

It's the most important part of any game, imho. Zombieneighbours wrote:All hail Gaia!;)Also, to make that more than a geekgasm about cybergen, how would you structure a Cybergen adventure/campaign? What kind of thing do you have cybergen characters do for an adventure? I love Cybergen, have done since it came out, and I get the running for your life from the corperate overlords shtick, but I have never really been that sure how to implement it in game.

Advice would be most welcome, because it would rock my world to be able to run a good game of Cybergen.Oof. That's a hefty request. Let's see if I can summarize it.(For the record, I've been running a very successful - if slow - CG game via e-mail since the game came out. It's very close to wrapping up, now, actually.)- Start off small. My game started at a basketball match between the New Santa Clara Arcology High Lancers (Sponsored by Militech, Arasaka, Raven Microcyb, and everyone's favorite, ISA-approved fast food franchise, Patriot Burger!) and the Incorporated City of San Francisco Education Academy Scorpions. The first several rounds of the game centered on a basketball game - one of the PC's was a player. Two others were boardpunks watching the game.

Another (the Goth) was there with her dad on a court-ordered visitation. The Megaviolent and his crew spent several sessions stealing ketchup and mustard barrels from the Soy Dog On A Stick stand at the stadium so that they could get up into the rafters and drop it on the game.- Scare the hell out of them. The previously mentioned basketball game ended abruptly when a man in black BDU's dropped, dead, from the very same rafters that the Mega and his goons were getting ready to drop ketchup and mustard from. The black-clad, nameless corpse and his pals were in the process of cornering a very scared, very sickly looking kid. The kid was disintegrating as the Mega watched, turning into just so much silver sand - seemingly sweating himself into just so much silica.

When the kids 'spirit' came out of his body and saved the Mega from being shot (The kid was a Wizard and was dying a horrible death thanks to the CNM's in his body going nuts) by reaching into the smart guns of the Killsquad and blowing up all their Genius Gun ammo, the Mega FREAKED. So, from the rafters fell another body. Then another. Then a torrent of red and yellow 'goo.' Then a stream of fine, metallic, silver sand. At which point the entire stadium erupted in a panic - because every one KNEW that they were now infected (even the ones who weren't) and that they were all going to die. The Carbon Plague kills you.

If it doesn't, it makes you a BABY KILLING MONSTER.- No, really, scare them to death. I warned everyone going in that the CNM's are random, arbitrary things. They 'might kill you if you get infected, I make no guarantees that your character will survive if you are infected, make at least three characters.' When the kids finally started showing signs of Evolution, their players were genuinely concerned that I might kill off their character for purposes of furthering the game. I never did, but they thought I might.- Keep them exhausted. Never let up.

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Once they're spotted by the ISA, or the Clarkers, or their angry parents, or the Edgerunners, never let them sleep. A bunch of tired, scared, hungry kids with post-human powers is a ticking time bomb of drama waiting to go off.- Saturate them with media. Virtuality ensures that they are living in a cartoon world populated with commercials and information overload. They should be constantly exposed to ads and to data and e-mail and texting and tiny little virtual-pet avatars waiting at their feet for them to pat on the head and praise before stuffing an e-mail icon into their mouths (to be dutifully delivered to the v-pets owner with all due speed). Then, take it away from them. Sensory deprivation at its finest, when they're forced to live in the real world. Maybe the ISA can track Wizards through the Net, because Wizards are 'always on' - imagine the fun when the Wizard has to starve herself to shut her 'transmitter' down.- Use them at every turn.

No one in Cybergeneration is out for the best interests of the kids. The closest thing to 'wanting to help the kids' is the Eden Cabal, and even THEY have their own motives. In the entire course of my game, the only two adults who have never lied to the kids are Morgan Blackhand and Gaia - and only then because Morgan's illegitimate son knocked up one of the PC's, and Gaia. Well, she's evolved beyond lying. But even then, both of them admit that they're deliberately training the kids to incite an overthrow of the ISA (Gaia), or 'Just giving you what you need to survive, babygirl' (Morgan). All of the other adults - up to and including the parents of several of the PC's - have lied, cheated, stolen, and outright betrayed their children, in turns.

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Three of the PC's parents have died defending them. Three of the other PC's parents were: Never their real parents; Secretly running a clone-slave farm using his two original children as templates; working for the ISA and attempted to recruit his daughter to kill the other PC's.- No where is safe. Not a 'safe house.' Not a heavily fortified series of bunkers beneath an observatory in the hills, constructed by the Army during the height of the Second Corporate War. Eventually, the bad guys will find them.

And when they do, they will come with men in combat armor, with Genius Guns and Hunter Killer drones, and cyborg animals and explosives. They will come with chain-gun laden Attack Spinners.

They will come with other kids, brainwashed into service. They will come with other kids, there willingly, just to prove to themselves and to their parents that they're not monsters - the other kids. The ones hiding out in the dark screaming 'please just leave me alone!'

THEY are the monsters.I could go on and on. But I think that's a good start. Short form: Scare them. Run them ragged.

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Impress upon them that nowhere is safe. Use them, abuse them, throw them away. The only people they can rely on are themselves.And when all that's done, hint to them that there is some deeper purpose to the evolutions.

For whatever reason. Something bigger is coming.and POW.

Successful game.:DHope this helps.:). I almost forgot - 'Kromosome' for the 'Amazing Engine' system is well worth a look, if you can find it (ISBN 1-56076-881-9 if it helps).I'm not too sold on the system itself, but the setting information in the book is top notch. Personally, I stole a load of stuff from there when running Cyberpunk 2020, as it all fits in really well. The book has 16 pages for the core 'Amazing Engine system', but all the setting-specific stuff is nicely divided away from that, and there's 124 pages of that.

Oh, and a pull-out poster-map of the setting's 'net' too. One of the chief differences between 2013 and 2020 I haven't seen brought out was the netrunning aspect.In 2013, you had an interface program that put a 'theme' to how you visualized the net. In 2020, that is gone, and everyone sort of sees the net the same way. The ruleset for netrunning changed up slightly too.I seem to recall that 2013, it was pretty simple, but in 2020, it got much more complex.For the record, I LOVED the 'theme' interface. They had some 'canned' versions you could use, but there was the option to program your own. I chose to write a 'Toon' interface, drawing on the plethora of cartoon source material. Man, that made the runs much more enjoyable.The support material for 2020 was great, though.

Night City sourcebook, Rache Bartmoss's Guide to the Net, Brainware Blowout, Listen up you Primitive Screwheads, Morgan Blackhand's Street Weapons 2020.And they all look like they are available at too. Timitius wrote:One of the chief differences between 2013 and 2020 I haven't seen brought out was the netrunning aspect.In 2013, you had an interface program that put a 'theme' to how you visualized the net. In 2020, that is gone, and everyone sort of sees the net the same way. The ruleset for netrunning changed up slightly too.I seem to recall that 2013, it was pretty simple, but in 2020, it got much more complex.For the record, I LOVED the 'theme' interface. They had some 'canned' versions you could use, but there was the option to program your own. I chose to write a 'Toon' interface, drawing on the plethora of cartoon source material. Man, that made the runs much more enjoyable.The support material for 2020 was great, though.

Night City sourcebook, Rache Bartmoss's Guide to the Net, Brainware Blowout, Listen up you Primitive Screwheads, Morgan Blackhand's Street Weapons 2020.And they all look like they are available at too.The theme for net-running is an excellent idea. ProfPotts wrote:I almost forgot - 'Kromosome' for the 'Amazing Engine' system is well worth a look, if you can find it (ISBN 1-56076-881-9 if it helps).I'm not too sold on the system itself, but the setting information in the book is top notch. Personally, I stole a load of stuff from there when running Cyberpunk 2020, as it all fits in really well. The book has 16 pages for the core 'Amazing Engine system', but all the setting-specific stuff is nicely divided away from that, and there's 124 pages of that. Oh, and a pull-out poster-map of the setting's 'net' too.- 'Wolfgang Baur: Nominated for an 1994 Origins award, and the first biopunk setting.

Lots of great stuff in a slim package.' Just wow.I have great respect for Mr Baur's work,and to think this works as an all in one system.I'm definitely interested.

Zombieneighbours wrote:I actually played in a someone's half finished game that was kind of a mix of Appleseed and uh oh forgot the name.classic girls in mecha armor doing police work.oh well, it was lots of fun. Unfortunately, the creator had self esteem issues and never really believed we liked it.GregBubblegum crash/bubblegum crisis, set in the AD police universe.BINGO!

I kept thinking 'cotton candy' and knew that was wrong:PAlso, Hardwired was not that great of a novel, but I felt it made a nice gritty setting for Cyberpunk.And as with every cyberpunk game of any maker. DEFINITELY fill them with paranoia, betrayal and a sense of loss.Our group started meeting together to play 2013, and we still play RPG's together.

And a common cry when ever we supsect the $h!t is gonna hit the fan, 'MILITECH TRICK!!!' Bastards put an assassin program into our media man, and he killed the fellow we were 'supossed' to safely extract.:(GregGreg. Yeah - Kromosome kinda' rocks, now I'm looking back at it.It's all about 'genemods' as well as cybertech, and the basic campaign premise is that the PCs form 'micro-corps' - the small, flexible, and fast young turk successors to the giant, ponderous, and powerful mega-corps of cyberpunk fame. Personally, I love the Interface Zero from Gun Metal games (through RPG Objects)as a setting for cyberpunk gaming.Further into the future than many cyberpunk settings since it is set in 2088. But it keeps the feel of Cyberpunk 2013/2020.Allows options for playing borgs, genetically altered,robot-housed AIs.They made some massive but well thought out changes to the world and the timeline isn't as badly outdated as Cyberpunk 2013/2020.The books is 162 page pdf for 10.95.All of this is from reading through the True 20 version.

I dislike Savage Worlds as a system so I haven't seen if there are any differences between the True20 and SW version. Zombieneighbours wrote:I actually played in a someone's half finished game that was kind of a mix of Appleseed and uh oh forgot the name.classic girls in mecha armor doing police work.oh well, it was lots of fun. Unfortunately, the creator had self esteem issues and never really believed we liked it.Bubblegum crash/bubblegum crisis, set in the AD police universe.BINGO! I kept thinking 'cotton candy' and knew that was wrong:PGreg, if you want a system in the vein of CP 2013/2020 to do Bubblegum Crisis with, pick up the actual licensed BubbleGum Crisis RPG, also from R. Like all things mentioned on the thread so far, it should be on DriveThru.:). Ambrosia Slaad wrote: Even though it's technically 'post-cyberpunk,' I'm going to throw in a plug for the excellent. I much prefer it - rules, flavor, and crunch - over Cyberpunk.

Plus, it's licensed under Creative Commons, so you can download the core book for free (Posthuman Studios actually seed the torrents themselves). If you like it an enjoy it, you can always support them by buying the PDF through DriveThruRPG, or picking up the hardcover here at Paizo when the new printing arrives.I would also add my vote behind Eclipse Phase. I was looking at it to run a post apocalypse game (but the game didn't happen) and it has rules for cybernetics and mutations.